💃🏻 Embracing a Relationship with Your Business as a Living Entity – with Kate Smalley

Giada Centofanti [00:00:04]:
Hey there. Welcome to Inner Impact, a podcast about taking aligned action. I’m your host, Giada Centofanti, coach and founder of Care to Impact. On this show, you will get tools, inspiration, and space to take online action and create a business that brings joy and positive change to your lives and the world. Hey there. Welcome to Inner Impact. In today’s episode, we are going to explore what being in a relationship with our businesses means and how it can help us take aligned action to build a business that feels truly aligned to ourselves. And we are going to do it in conversation with Kate Smalley. Let me introduce her to you. Kate Smalley is a small business advisor, educator, and facilitator based in Ontario, Canada. Her work draws on twelve years of experience in marketing, primarily for small businesses and early stage start ups, eight years in personal finance, and ongoing study in systems thinking, trauma recovery, and organizational development. She is certified as a qualified associate financial planner and a trauma of money method facilitator. Kate brings a truly holistic lens to business growth, helping caring and committed business owners build strong sustainable businesses they can be themselves in. Welcome, Kate. I am so grateful to have you on the podcast.

Kate Smalley [00:01:39]:
Thank you. I’m excited to be here. I’ve really been looking forward to this.

Giada Centofanti [00:01:43]:
Me too. This is a conversation we’ve been looking forward to. This is a topic we are both fond of, and I think we have quite a few things to talk about. So let’s dive right into it. So I will start by sharing my perspective. So here we are all about alignment. And I believe that alignment in business for a solo or a small business owner is about self awareness and business awareness. It’s about acknowledging and honoring both, your and your business rhythms and cycles, and also is about aligning your business needs and wants with yours. So I think that this work starts from nurturing a connection within yourself and with your business so you can have, an open conversation and a partnership that feels joyful and fulfilling. And I think that to do this, it’s key to rethink how we see a business. And that’s why I wanted to have this conversation with you because the first time I met you, and it was during one of Amanda Lee’s workshops, you said a thing that struck me and resonated deeply, which is business is not like a machine. It is like a living entity. Would you tell us more?

Kate Smalley [00:03:08]:
Oh my gosh. I love that language, joyful and fulfilling. And thank you for that succinct overview because I still struggle a bit, honestly, when people ask me, what does that mean to you being in a relationship with your business? And I love all of the points you just hit on. So the main thing I think of with that of business is not a machine, it’s this living entity is that I don’t see your business as a static thing because we’re not static and our people aren’t static, our audience, our customers, our clients, the market certainly isn’t static. The economy isn’t static. All of these things are ever changing. And the other thing I really believe is that business isn’t about arriving. I think that’s a really easy thing to hold in business and in life of like, okay, once I get there, then I’ll have it all figured out and I’ll be okay. And like, I just have to put these pieces in place or build this machine and then I’ll be good. I’ll be done. I’ll be figured out. And I just don’t believe that that’s how business works. Not that there isn’t significant milestones or stages that we reach or things we’re able to build in our business that then are able to kind of work on their own for us a bit. But I think that’s a bit of a trap to think that we just get somewhere and then we’re done. Like, I really believe that business is this ever evolving thing, because like I said, we keep changing our clients or customers keep changing. The market keeps changing. So it’s about being in that continuous, relationship and continuous conversation to be able to keep evolving with it.

Giada Centofanti [00:05:01]:
Yeah. I I want to highlight a couple of things that you said so, that a business is not static because none of its its elements is. So we are not as business, business owners. Our clients, the markets, the economy is is those are not static things. And also, thinking about, you know, a business as something that we arrive to something that we achieve. I deeply resonate with it because in in my mind also, alignment is not something that you achieve when you are done with it. It’s your lifetime’s work. And it is, I guess, it is imperfect per se. And that’s probably also the beauty of it, if you want.

Kate Smalley [00:05:52]:
Mhmm. And we can still find enjoyment or to use your language, like joy and fulfillment in all of those stages, hopefully. Mhmm.

Giada Centofanti [00:06:04]:
Yeah. So now I’m wondering, so, okay, we probably are very conditioned to think businesses as machines. So as some kind of things that need to be productive, efficient, that need to, you know, create revenue and

Kate Smalley [00:06:30]:
need

Giada Centofanti [00:06:30]:
to be strategic and all those kind of things that feel drier. But so how did you started to embrace a different perspective? How did you start start seeing a business as some you know, approaching it with a more kind of relational organic approach?

Kate Smalley [00:06:54]:
Mhmm. I’m not sure where that would have started for me. I honestly can’t locate something, but something I definitely started noticing and pay a lot of attention to is the language that we use around business. And I went to business school for my undergrad and a lot of the language we use comes from military language and capture. And like, there’s so many terms that we use that to this is a generalization, but I will find that more say creative folk will just like kind of bristle against that language or I’m not trying to scale. Like, what does that even mean? And I think that’s really limiting. I find this in marketing language, and even the language used for money and learning about finance is the language can be so off putting or just associations that we don’t resonate with. And I really encourage people to choose language that does resonate for them. And even things as simple as some people don’t like the concept or language of goals, but we aimed towards something they’d be like, oh, I have an aim or, oh yeah, I have a direction or I have an intention like that. We get to choose language and definitions and framings that we feel more at home in. And I think that those understandings and the language that we use and all of these structures that we have really shape our behavior. And when we have definitions and framings we feel good about, we’re probably more likely to be excited to show up.

Giada Centofanti [00:08:51]:
Yeah. So, I’m loving this because I’m thinking about how, we often refer to, what are some kind of, you know, disempowering beliefs also as disempowering narratives. And narratives are made of words, So are grounded in language. So, yes, the words have, a huge power. And if we start reframing the language we use toward the business, for example, we can start to reframe and change and shift our own approach to it. I’m wondering if you tried, I mean, intentionally or unintentionally something like that with any of your client. I mean, to help them, you know, embrace this more relational approach, maybe through changing the language or other thing that you may have tried.

Kate Smalley [00:09:57]:
Some of it is definitely language. So even a client recently, because even though I’m aware of this, this language is so deep in us, we’re having this conversation and I say scale to talk about growing their business. And they’re the ones that flagged are like, I actually don’t like the word scale. Can we use grow? And I love that I can bring that up or a client can bring that up. And another big thing is if someone says, I don’t like marketing as an example, only a common one that I hear to be able to get specific about that. Like what are you defining as marketing? And sometimes it’s marketing equals social media and I don’t like social media, or I think I’m quote unquote bad on it, bad at it. But then we get to see like, oh, marketing is much wider for media. And what if it was about sharing your work? Like what’s the framing that makes you kind of excited or curious or think like, oh, yeah. I could figure out ways to share my work. That feels a little bit better than thinking about I need to figure out how to market. Because that’s also not a very specific thing. Like, just saying I need to figure out how to market doesn’t really lead you anywhere. But even just changing to, I wanna figure out how to share my work, or how can I get in front of these people that I care about, that might actually lead to some ideas for you? Mhmm.

Giada Centofanti [00:11:41]:
Yeah. So what I’m hearing here is, again, about having a kind of conversation and being able to notice and on your part, being able to be open to what the clients bring bring up. And then it will be either about reframing the language or the definition. So keeping the word and reframing the definition.

Kate Smalley [00:12:06]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Thank you. It’s such a joy to have someone listen to my ramble and be like, so what you’re saying is this and this?

Giada Centofanti [00:12:17]:
Yeah. I mean, I mean, I’m I’m doing it because I do it as a job, but I think it’s, something helpful for those who are listening. And to you too, the people I have conversations with because because it’s always super helpful to, you know, hear again hear back what you just said in a way that feels somehow distilled Mhmm. In bullet points. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Smalley [00:12:47]:
Another thing I think about with that question, like developing that sort of relationship with your business, in addition to that language and that definition is getting to learn what’s actually true for you and your business, which will take time. Like we’re really told these generalities about this is how business works, and this is how client behavior works, customer behavior, whatever it is, but being willing to perhaps listen to that and take that in like, oh, that’s maybe a common thing or a benchmark that 3% of your list converts or whatever it is. But give yourself the generosity of letting yourself discover what’s actually true for my business. And I can give an example for me. It’s often said that when you sell something or launch something, there’s more military language that I don’t love using. I just like, I feel it every time in my body or I’m like, I’m not launching a ship. Like, that’s not what I’m doing here. But if I’m selling a workshop as an example, the common advice is, or not advice, but, thing I hear is, oh, people won’t buy at the beginning or the first email. Like everyone will sign up at the end. And I have found, and it might be because I have quite a small list and I have a small audience, but I actually have the most signups at the beginning and very few at the end. And that will be true if it’s a workshop, if it’s a one on one offer. And there might be many factors influencing that, but it’s been helpful for me to notice like, oh, that’s what actually shows up in my business. At least right now. Not what I’ve been told to expect or what I’m told other people experience.

Giada Centofanti [00:14:46]:
And that’s why having a self and business reflective practice is key. Right? Yes. Okay. So I guess this is one of the benefits that we can see, you you just talk about that. And I I was I wanted to ask you what are the benefits of having a relationship, you know. So to shift in our mindset and embracing this relational aspect of having a business and being a partnership with a business. So I guess that, getting to know what works for you and for your business is one of the benefits. What else come comes to mind for you or maybe your clients too? Mhmm.

Kate Smalley [00:15:29]:
Be Well, the language you just used is that it’s a partnership, like being able to see yourself as a co creator rather than at the mercy of your business or you’re instantly sort of running behind your business, trying to catch up. And you’re just reacting to everything rather than being in this posture of like, oh, this is a give and take like any other kind of relationship. It’s a dance and that you really have the power to shape it and lead it.

Giada Centofanti [00:16:03]:
Yeah. I I love that. I love that language. I love the the image of the relationship with your business as a dance when you can, you know, exchange roles. And at some point, one of you will be leading, but you will always be trying to, you know, do something harmoniously if you want. And also that you are in a partnership co creating, that you’re not you’re not exploiting yourself in service of your business. And also, you’re not completely losing your identity and match it within your business.

Kate Smalley [00:16:46]:
Yes. I feel so excited hearing you say that. Yes. That you’re not exploiting yourself within your business, which I think is huge. And because we’re both, lovers of reflection and prompts, check-in questions I like around this are, what do I need from my business or what do I want from my business and what does my business need from me? Because it can be really easy to just live in one area, like be so self focused or so or so focused on a client, but any exercise that lets you quickly check-in with both sides of something can be helpful.

Giada Centofanti [00:17:26]:
Yeah. So we touched upon on what an unhealthy relationship could look like. What else would you love to add about that? So we said exploitation. We said enmeshing our our identity into our business.

Kate Smalley [00:17:46]:
Mhmm. Those two, what I already mentioned of feeling at the mercy, like if you, yeah, really feel at the mercy of your business, that’s typically a flag for me. Without a measurement piece needing it to validate your worth or your goodness. I see that a lot around pricing or response to a product or an offer, which is so human. And the other thing I would say is when we find ourselves avoiding parts of our business. So if we see our business as sort of a, a garden with lots of different areas or a house and the door labeled finance, we’re like, gosh, Hey, I never open it. Like if there’s parts of your business that you, yeah, find yourself avoiding, then I’m like, oh, that’s a great thing to get curious about and have a conversation around.

Giada Centofanti [00:18:56]:
Yeah. So I think avoidance is a great sign to spot. Well, maybe other signs we could spot when we are in an unhealthy relationship with our business, because sometimes it is not easy to notice it. And we tend to just go through and through and push and push until it’s too much.

Kate Smalley [00:19:20]:
That’s so helpful. I love that. Signs to spot avoidance, False urgency would be one.

Giada Centofanti [00:19:28]:
And I

Kate Smalley [00:19:28]:
know that’s hard to discern, but I try to qualify with false urgency because there are times where we do need to act quickly. I just think it’s probably far less than we might think it is, or our nervous systems might tell us. But when we’re in that really scrambly, like I have to figure out all of this now or else. Do any signs come to mind for you?

Giada Centofanti [00:20:00]:
So I guess one sign could be physical. So if we are in tune with our bodies, we can notice when we feel. So I would call it misaligned. And it will I I mean, it will feel like different from person to person. But whenever you are approaching something and your body is giving you some kind of physical sensation that is not completely pleasant, I would be very curious about that. It may not be actually connected to the unhealthy relationship. It could be, you know, fear, anxiety, or trauma, but it’s our body speaking. And when the body speaks, it tends to give us pearls of wisdom.

Kate Smalley [00:20:58]:
Oh, I like that. Yeah. I really believe that, it’s all information is a a prompt that I will remind myself of. And this is also making me think like we’re talking about signs to spot in ourselves or it’s perhaps a sign you could spot in someone else, like a client. I also thinking of signs that you would be able to see in your business, which would be very dependent on the business, some of it, but even things like cashflow. And that’s something I pay attention to and I call it a cash gap. I don’t know what the technical term would be. I look out at the next couple months and I could see like, Oh, in April or June, I’ve got a little window there where I’m not earning, bringing in enough revenue, the expenses that I have. So that gets to be a little marker for me, like, okay, what am I going to do about that? And yeah, I think there’s different metrics or signs that you could also spot in your business health.

Giada Centofanti [00:22:10]:
Yeah. And while you were talking about that, I thought that sometimes we tend to avoid to track the metrics or look at the metrics or do the self reflective work because it scares us. And it’s perfectly legit and valid and, you know, that you feel anxious and you feel fear. But, you know, being in business means that we also need to learn how to regulate our emotions around that. So I am wondering if you have any kind of, I don’t know, grounding practice to help you when you know that you will look at some kind of thing that you probably won’t like?

Kate Smalley [00:23:04]:
Okay. First, I love that you tied it to like, brought it back to that relationship, and the relationship between those internal signs and then the signs that you might notice in your business. Grounding practices. This is something I’m kind of going through another season of figuring out what feels like new ones for myself. My the way I experience anxiety has shifted since I had a, significant personal move recently. So I went one of those phases, which I had before, where it feels like the tools that you, your toolbox don’t work as well anymore.

Giada Centofanti [00:23:53]:
Yeah. I

Kate Smalley [00:23:54]:
know what you mean. And humbling. So the most honest answer I can give you is it kind of feels like a jumble in my brain to be asked that question. Cause I’m like, oh gosh, I don’t know. Sometimes it is really about pausing is the way I would sum it up, like being a pause in the moment, take a breath. I love lying on the floor. Like that is a very quick way for me to recenter myself. If I lie down honestly for even less than a minute or being able to go on a walk, like some sort of pause and reset maybe a meditation. I have found recently that doing something more physical is helpful for me, like, or dancing or something like that to feel like I’m actually moving stuff out of my body. One thing this is early days as in the last week, but one thing that’s been helping me recently is to remind myself, and this is true for my brain, that I am almost certainly overestimating how scary or bad this is, or I’m kind of overestimating the danger and I’m underestimating my capacity and my capability. And I’ve actually been amazed at how much that’s helped me in the moment, because it feels deeply true for me from experience that I can do things that scare me. And then after I do it, I’m like, gosh, that really wasn’t so hard or so bad, which can sometimes link to like a shame collapse. Cause I’m like, I avoided doing that for three months. And you’re telling me that it was fine. Like instead of being relieved, honestly, the primary feeling can be kind of feeling bad about myself. Like, why is this so hard for me or still so hard for me? So I have that evidence of like, yeah, it’s, it’s really often built up in my mind. It’s bad. And I do know that I also often underestimate myself. I can remind myself that I’m, yeah, I’m capable of doing this, which includes being capable of, say this podcast. I just feel like a mess and it doesn’t go well. I can handle that. Like, it’s it’s one event. We’re gonna be fine. So it’s not just reassuring myself that I can handle it. It’s gonna be great. It’s like, well, maybe you won’t, and that’s okay. And before opening numbers that I might be afraid of, to remind myself that I can also handle that. And also from experience, I know that the longer that I avoid truly the worst it gets. I’m really if I can take, like, brave action today and actually look at this rather than letting it build. And a more practical tip would be, like, truly make it such a small first step for yourself. If you’re having a big reaction around something and you’ve already done some self regulating, if it’s something that you can’t do with someone, like you’re doing it by yourself, if you can make it like a tiny, tiny step. Mhmm.

Giada Centofanti [00:27:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So here, what I’m, I love hearing is that you are talking about both your body and your mind as two entities in a relationship, which give you each one its tools to be more grounded and to start or stop doing things as you may need in the moment. So you use your body in different ways, and you use your mind to remind yourself of past experiences which are which really happened in the past, so are true to yourself. And so you can believe them. And so you you’re not so sometimes, when I think about affirmations so affirmation can work, but we must believe them. Yes. Right? So that’s the benefit when to use past experiences is that because they really happened. And we really did something in the past that can help us today remind ourselves that we have the inner resources to do that thing or an adjacent thing once again.

Kate Smalley [00:29:03]:
Yes. Oh my gosh. That it is something that’s believable to you. I find it so key and such a missing piece that we sometimes don’t, talk about. Oh, and there was something else that I just lost. Oh, well.

Giada Centofanti [00:29:25]:
It will come back. It will come back. Okay. So we mentioned that we love self reflection, and we touch upon it a bit. But I would love to go a bit deeper. Do you I mean, do you have any you mentioned a prompt. Two prompts, actually, that are key to your practice. And that I think they can be key to anyone, any business or practice, which are what do I need and want, and what do does my business need and want. There are are there any other key reflection prompts or, you know, practices that you would love to share with our listeners?

Kate Smalley [00:30:15]:
My, my mind feels a little blank in the moment, trying to think of them. I did just remember what I was thinking of saying, and it’s related to this, that a reason that like you, I love reflection, is that I find it helps us build an evidence based relationship with reality. This is what has been true for me, or this is what I have noticed, which also ties back to earlier when I was saying like, do yourself the service of figuring out what’s true for your business and for you. Like, how does your energy work? What do you like doing? Because that is like, there’s so much wisdom right in front of us that we’re not often accessing. So if we can pay attention to that, I do like questions periodically of checking in, and I do this pretty much weekly of what are the things that energize me? What are the things that drained me? Perhaps this has been helpful for me lately. Like, what are things that I’m consistently avoiding?

Giada Centofanti [00:31:38]:
Mhmm.

Kate Smalley [00:31:39]:
I love just having an open bucket, especially in a monthly review for what am I noticing? And because I’m so used to that, I will, I don’t even tend to wait until the end of the month. I just have this doc and anytime something happens, I’m like, oh, that’s fascinating. That thing just happened on a client call or that when it’s often things that surprised me, it’s like, oh, that went different than I thought it would. Or I’m noticing, wow, I really want to be in more large team meetings or just stuff where you get to notice what your sometimes it’s what your desires are or what your dislikes are. And then I find it so helpful to see those patterns over time. And that’s especially for me working with clients because sometimes a really sharp edge can come up and we’re like, oh, I, I want to quit this thing. I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to offer this thing. I don’t want to work with this client. We have this, like, I want to table flip this part of my business or maybe my entire business and giving lots of space for that is like honor that. Like, let’s note that let’s write that down somewhere. But then what I’ll be curious is does that keep coming up or was that kind of a, a sharp edge? Maybe we had other stuff going on in our life, but if we can look back on three months of reflection and every month you’re saying, wow, I’m so drained by this thing, then that’s a really solid information. Like let’s do something about that.

Giada Centofanti [00:33:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I love, I love talking about patterns because they are really powerful even though we changed throughout life and our inner rhythms and cycles change. But being able to look at them can really help us shape the future in a way that honor our core self. And when I talk about that, I always think about, oddly, not clients, but a friend. So I have a friend and she wanted me to teach her the the review and to do with her her annual review. So it’s completely personal. It’s not business basis, you know, holistic, all life encompassing review. And she was able to notice after after the, I think the second year we’ve done it, that she tended to have, a lower mood and energy in June if she hadn’t had enough fun, playful experiences in March or spring. And I find it mind blowing. Yeah. And also so powerful because by noticing that she was able to plan fun and playful experiments in spring, and she arrived in June all energized. Mhmm.

Kate Smalley [00:34:47]:
I’m so glad you brought that up. I love those seasonal patterns or when you take wider lens, it’s so helpful. And I’ve started doing that and it really changed how I was able to plan the shape of my year and kind of getting back to your business isn’t a machine like we aren’t either. So if my business is set up expecting that I’m going to have the same output, the same energy every week or every month, or I’m gonna earn the same amount of money. That might work for some people. I’m not saying that doesn’t work at all, but there’s a lot of people in instances that that’s unrealistic. Or so when you have that shape in advance, again, based on the evidence from your own life and business, then that opens up so much possibility. And I love that example of that could be a fun thing of like, okay, what am I gonna do in my spring so that I am set up to be more supported in June?

Giada Centofanti [00:35:49]:
Yeah. And I mean, speaking of cycles, even our clients have cycles. So we are in a relationship with our business, our businesses, and our businesses and us are in a relationship with our clients. So we need to take into account their cycles. And to know about their cycles, we need to keep track of them. So working with many small business owners, and I’m sure you you’ve had the same experience. I know that one of my clients had clients coming over every summer. And at the end of the year, some other clients had just crickets all over the summer, but clients flooding in in September. So those are cycles. And we can, you know, notice them and also use them to shape our own sales cycles. So it’s like a lot of dots we can put together to create an image. So there are our inner rhythms and our energy and our own cycles, our business cycles, which depends on our client cycles. And all of these, it probably feels a lot, but it it, quote unquote, just takes, you know, regular self reflective practice.

Kate Smalley [00:37:21]:
Mhmm. And I think sorry. What’s from getting to join one of your workshops about building out your own reflective practice, it seems like you also broke this up the way that I think about this in my head of separating out those stages of noticing or reflecting. Like we’re just being curious and we’re plotting out the map. Like we’re writing down what’s happening and letting that be a separate stage of, okay, now I’m gonna try to interpret this and make it like not doing those two things at once, like get yourself the kind of wide net. And then it says different kind of frame or stage to now look at everything to start interpreting it and doing something with it.

Giada Centofanti [00:38:12]:
Mhmm. Yes. Absolutely. And I think it gives you enough, enough room to breathe while you, you know, collecting or gathering your data about what happened throughout your past month or week or whatever. And then, yeah, you stop and you start to gain insights. But you I think in the collect phase, as I call it, you still have that nonjudgmental attitude, that curiosity, as you call it, that really helps you come to the other steps with a different approach.

Kate Smalley [00:38:59]:
Mhmm. Yes. Because I often find if we’re not able, sorry, to be curious about something often because we’re worried about, oh, what am I going to find if I turn over that rock? Or we’re already three steps ahead of like, oh, that means I’m going to have to do this and this. It means we can kind of shorten our field of view prematurely or like gather less information that would be helpful because we don’t wanna have to deal with what we might find. And even just a reminder that the point won’t be to kind of deal with everything that you find or address everything. That sounds pretty overwhelming and unrealistic. It’s not that you’re gonna have to do something with every piece of information, but you can really be surprised when you let yourself kind of cast as wide a net as possible. And I also think that’s where really interesting and creative new ideas come from.

Giada Centofanti [00:40:03]:
Mhmm. Yes. Yeah. I love your interpretation of it, and it reminds me of a client who tended to be very overwhelmed when she had to unpack every task for a project. Because in her mind, when she was unpacking, she was just she at at the same time, she was starting doing all of them.

Kate Smalley [00:40:32]:
Mhmm.

Giada Centofanti [00:40:33]:
So splitting the thing into two. So at first, you list all the tasks, and then you tackle them one by one, lower the overwhelm and anxiety. And it it sounds like it is the same thing that you’re thinking about, you know, the process that I was talking about. So we are not keen to look under the rock because our mind is already thinking about the next step. But if we put a pause between the reflection and the next step, we have some room to breathe.

Kate Smalley [00:41:13]:
Yes. And what you’re saying, because I really relate to your client, once you’re at that stage where you’re outlining the project or all of the steps, I can get really overwhelmed because I consciously and unconsciously think that all of this has to happen at once. So then being able to remind yourself, like, this doesn’t all happen at once, One step at a time and you, get to it’ll be different for different people and their business, and if they’re accountable to other people. But we generally have a fair amount of agency of how we break up those steps and the pace that we move at. And so it’s, it’s often far more manageable than our brains might.

Giada Centofanti [00:42:05]:
Yeah. And you mentioned the agency, and I so I’m I’m wondering I wanna know what you think, if, you know, having this partnership with our business and not, you know, seeing it seeing it as a machine or something that is inside ourself impacts positively our agency, sense of agency? I think it does.

Kate Smalley [00:42:33]:
I think all of this positively impacts our agency when we’re able to see the relationship and see the evidence and it’s so, like heartening and strengthening when we can see like, oh, when I do that action, this sometimes happens or often happens in my business. And like this leads to me getting more of the work that I want. Like that is so when we don’t have those connections or relationships of how that dance work, like when I kind of my business leans back and then I get this sort of outcome, the give and take, I think that does so much for, yeah, our confidence and our sense of agency of like, I have power to shape this and I can try different things to get closer to an outcome that I want.

Giada Centofanti [00:43:32]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, yes, it it is about, you know, considering our business as a partner, having a relationship with it, having a conversation in terms of self reflection and business reflection. And this reflection give us evidence. I mean, we already have evidence, but it it give it highlights evidence on what’s working and what’s not. And so we have the agency to shift things or keep doing things that are working.

Kate Smalley [00:44:06]:
And I love that having a fairly regular reflection reflection practice, which does not have to be weekly, honestly, maybe it doesn’t even have to be monthly, but it means that we don’t go too, too far down the line before getting those checkpoints where we can reorient. So we’re going down a path for two years and then realizing like, I actually don’t even want to have this business, but if we had more regular checkpoints, we probably would have seen the signs or the patterns earlier, or would have been more in that kind of shaping. Mhmm.

Giada Centofanti [00:44:44]:
Yeah. Can I ask you what’s your, frequency of your reflection practice is?

Kate Smalley [00:44:52]:
I do I’ve done a monthly reflection. Oh my gosh. Since 2017. Some months have been short, but I have actually stuck to that, which I don’t know if I have any habit in my life that I have stuck to for that long aside from brushing my teeth, maybe. So that’s a real core for me. And I do a, not every week, but maybe half or more weeks, I do a weekly wind down. Often has a couple reflection questions. Sometimes in the fall, it was just one question. It was just what worked. Really helpful for me at the time to just be looking again, looking at the evidence of like, what are the things that are working right now? Because I was in a period where I felt like things weren’t working. So that was really useful for me to look for signs that I’m making progress or be able to note these little things. Hey, every time you go for a walk, you’ve yet to regret that. I can say that works.

Giada Centofanti [00:46:04]:
So, yeah,

Kate Smalley [00:46:05]:
I’ll do a couple reflection questions maybe at the end of a week. Mhmm. End of a month. And then I do, like, quarterly and annual also. But I would say monthly is that the core one for me. And quarterly might be more about, honestly, more about reviewing all of that and those patterns, that’s where I might look at more metrics in my business. There’s a lot of stuff that I won’t, I’m not gonna track these things month to month because it’s not meaningful for me or my business or where I’m at, but I do wanna see a trend over a season.

Giada Centofanti [00:46:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. I feel that a quarter or even if it is an, you know, a calendar quarter, but ninety days are great. And, you know, OKRs to work on a span of ninety days because they are not long, not too long and not too short of a period of time to be experimenting with things and see if they can work. And, yes, probably, the surely the quarterly review would be the one I would look at metrics more quantitative data too.

Kate Smalley [00:47:22]:
Mhmm. And I’m I’m learning. I tend to plan more effectively quarterly, kind of have a group of projects that I know are important to me over the next few months. Mhmm. And I’ll end up being kind of surprised about what happens first or how long things take. I’ve had a really tough time, trying to plan in a really linear way. Like, I can’t just put blocks in my calendar and that happens. Like, that just doesn’t seem to work for my brain. Mhmm. But looking at a season of projects, like ninety days of projects, that works better for me. And it’s also been a helpful way to reflect on that ninety days and to see how much I actually did because I chronically overestimate how much I think I can do. It’s more accurately how much I think I should be able to do in person. So being able to see that evidence of you wrote down seven things and you did three things and guess what? Every time you do three things, you don’t use seven things. So what if you just put down three things next time?

Giada Centofanti [00:48:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I completely agree. And so on the on one hand, I used to, teach my clients to always overestimate time. So if it’s if it’s quicker, it’s gonna be better. But please overestimate double the time that you’re thinking about that. But of course, on the other end, I am a small business owner, and I have a ton of ideas that I want to act upon right now all at once.

Kate Smalley [00:49:08]:
Yes. And I I still really struggle with that. Like, I have not cracked that code. I’ve gotten better.

Giada Centofanti [00:49:15]:
Yeah. But I mean, it it’s just I think it probably just about you start doing them and then you realize you cannot do them all at once, And so you start dropping them or on the other hand, when I feel really, really tired, I know that I can focus just on one project.

Kate Smalley [00:49:42]:
Yeah. That’s so helpful to know if you’re in a I call that for myself, like, a lower capacity season.

Giada Centofanti [00:49:49]:
Mhmm.

Kate Smalley [00:49:49]:
Like, okay, I’m in this kind of land right now. And I know for me, that means single focus or whatever it is tends to work. Mhmm.

Giada Centofanti [00:50:01]:
That’s something, you know, I did, at the beginning of this year. I was very, very in a very low capacity season. And so I was working with Amanda Laird, and I told her, well, right now, I need to know what is the must have. Then we’re gonna have the nice to haves, and then among the nice to haves the someday. But right now just one must have.

Kate Smalley [00:50:25]:
Yes. That’s so key. And I think I can say, even though, you know, I haven’t cracked the code on knowing my capacity and planning the right amount of things. Something I have made progress on, which feels like the true celebration for me is shame myself less for it, like less bad about it, which honestly is such a game changer. And instead being able to just see it as like, oh, imagine that you’re still a human. This like we’re here again, this thing happened and like, that’s okay. Because the least helpful thing I can do is pile on shame or hook it that narrative. Like, I can’t believe you did it again, or you haven’t learned, or anything like that.

Giada Centofanti [00:51:23]:
Thank you for sharing that. That is an important message. We tend to, you know, shame ourselves or go on the guilt trip for almost anything. And it’s important to know that we are completely allowed not to. So thanks for sharing that. Okay. So we are coming to a close, but I want to ask you a couple of questions first. So first of all, what is the next aligned action that you are planning to take?

Kate Smalley [00:52:02]:
Kind of a a group of actions that I would all sum up around starting the conversations I want to have. And I really like, reaching out to people or basically pitching myself. So there are some people I wanted to connect with that either do something similar to me, And I just wanna have a conversation with them. I really love having a network of people I can refer to. And I like knowing like, who’s really good at this thing and this thing and this thing. So kind of fostering that network. And I just love chatting to other business owners. So I’ve had some people in mind I’m like, okay, I wanna reach out and schedule some of those conversations. And some things that I guess could be summed up as market research. Like there’s businesses that I’m really curious about. And I want to honestly have a, like, just candid conversation about how they work and what kind of support that they’ve had. I think it’s, it’s important to me, and this has worked well for me in the past to just get in the world and have conversations and figure out what business owners for me, I work with other business owners. So what are people like actually struggling with? What’s going well? What’s not, what do they want help with? Maybe I can help some of that and it’ll inform some of my own services. Maybe I’ll be like, oh yeah, I know a great finance person that I can connect you with. It’s anything, that fosters those relationships. I feel I find energizing and can lead to interesting things. But the important thing for me is it doesn’t have to lead to work. Like, really the the reason to do it is the conversation itself. It doesn’t have to go further. And if anything else happens, that’s great. But, yeah, starting conversations.

Giada Centofanti [00:54:07]:
Love that because I love having conversation and connecting with people just for the sake of it. And it’s always the best way to, you know, create also business relationships. Okay. So the second question is what’s the best way for people to connect with you?

Kate Smalley [00:54:26]:
Oh, my newsletter, which you can sign up for at katesmalley.com/newsletter. I’m sending that out once or twice a month. And yeah, that’s really the main place to stay in touch with me and I’ll link any articles I’ve written or videos I’ve done. I share things that I’m noticing in my own business or with my clients. And it’s also where I would share like workshops or anything like that. So that’s kind of the, the main hub for me to stay in touch.

Giada Centofanti [00:55:03]:
Mhmm. And, I mean, I can confirm, and I also want to send people over to your website because you had some kind of, changes lately. And I really loved how it looks and, I mean, all you put in it. And so there’s also the website, and we will put the links in the show notes. Thank you so much for this conversation. It was lovely, and I want to listen to it again because I want to take notes.

Kate Smalley [00:55:33]:
This was such a joy. Thank you so much for how you build everything. It was really a gift.

Giada Centofanti [00:55:39]:
Yeah. To me too. Thank you. Okay. So before we part ways, I want to invite you listeners to reflect on two questions. What are your main takeaways and insights from this conversation, and how can you apply them to take a light action this week? Okay. That’s it for today. You can find the show notes, the links and the transcript at caretoimpact.com/podcast. And while you are there, don’t forget to sign up for the next free inner impact session. So thanks for listening, bye for now, and keep sparking your inner impact.